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Darrien
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![[*]](./images/corporate/default_icon.gif) posted on 8/29/02 at 22:58 |
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Opening the Throat
I have been doing some reading (thats why I ended up at TPO) and the phrase "open the throat" keeps comming up.
Could anyone explain how this is done, i am confused.
Thanks for your help.
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mbothe
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 posted on 8/30/02 at 07:21 |
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Open your throught
Hey opening your throught is a very vital part of trumpet playing. they way i was tought was when you sing you get a very open sound if you do not
tense up your throught and neck.
it is the same with the trumpet if you have really tense throught and neck you you will get a thin nasily kind of sound but if you can relax your
whole neck and shoulders your throught is therefor more open allowing a wider fuller sound.
Some people can just do this others use the Alexander Tecnique to help relax.
hope this is of some help 
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AdamStrad37G
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| posted on 8/30/02 at 11:39 |
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When you inhale, you should hear a nice deep open sound. That will open your throat. If you do not inhale the correct way, your throat will not
change until the next breath.
Adam Decker
B.M. Trumpet Performance Student
University of Michigan
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Darrien
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 posted on 8/30/02 at 20:54 |
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Thanks for the replys, still can't seem to get it though.
Whenever i blow, i can feel a great amount of pressure in the throat. Its like i am compressing the air when it passes through the throat.
Then when i am out of breath and inhale, i first release a lot of air which has been trapped in the lungs.
Mbothe whats the Alexander Tecnique?
Thanks again for the responses.
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DrunkIQ
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| posted on 8/30/02 at 22:33 |
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ok, this worked for me when i got to this point...
yawn... see how open your throat feels?
great!!! - work on making it like that when you play -
also remember to bring your horn up to your lips when you play - if you bend to far over and bring your lips to the mouthpice then your head may be to
far bent over and your throat may not open fully -
go to http://www.monette.net and read about proper body alignment..
have fun,
marc
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AdamStrad37G
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| posted on 8/31/02 at 00:24 |
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Yawning is the perfect way to describe it. It was on the tip of my tongue (fingers), but for some reason I couldn't think of it.
Adam Decker
B.M. Trumpet Performance Student
University of Michigan
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mbothe
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| posted on 8/31/02 at 03:49 |
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Alexander Technique
Hey Mate
the alexander technique is a techniqu developed by F.M Alexander in the early 1900. he was an great actor who found when he got on stage he could not
say his lines with the same power and projection as he could at home.
After studying himself in the mirror he discovered that when he just talked he was totly relaxed but when he resited lines he would tense up and
basically to shorten a long story was "tensing his Throught"
So he gave up acting and spent years developing this tecnique which is all about carring and using your body they way it should be. many top actors
and musicians use it. there is a whole section to do with music.
There is a few web pages try http://www.alexandertechnique.com/
this will let you no more about it.
hope this helps See ya 
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malpal1
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| posted on 1/21/03 at 01:02 |
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Yawning is the way that I learned. It's the perfect way to get a mental picture of what it means to have an open throat.
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kalijah
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| posted on 1/21/03 at 18:07 |
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Open Throat Debunked
I can't believe how all this bad advice keeps circulating about an "Open Throat".
If you try to do the same action as yawning while you play you will be putting a lot of unproductive energy into your playing and just adding a
different kind of tension. The best thing to do is to only "relax" the throat. Relaxing is passive, that is, a complete absence of muscular action.
Any muscular effort to try to force open the throat such as yawning action, dropping the jaw etc. will do nothing to improve the sound. All it will do
is hinder it. The quality of sound is defined almost solely by the ability of the embouchure to vibrate at various frequencies. All that is required
is to apply air flow, and that in only modest quantities for an efficient vibrational point. Of course the volume of the sound is a function of the
air velocity. An efficient vibration point will also yield greater volume for a given velocity of air.
So the best thing to do is simply relax the throat and be sure that tension of ANY kind is not causing you to waste effort. Again there is no muscular
ACTION that will open the throat, including yawning action.
It kills me how all these students and teachers talk about is air, how to use more, how to create more abdominal pressure and all that, as if that is
what defines and creates the sound. It does not.
Fact: Air flow and the pressure behind it only provide the power for the sound. It does not provide any tone color or any effect to the
frequency content of that sound.
It would also be correct to say that the more efficient a players point of vibration resonates, the less energy, from air and pressure, that is
required.
What matters most in playing is the sound, AND getting that sound with the least required effort. (Which gives endurance) I can't believe how all
these students and teachers talk about is air, how to use more, how to create more abdominla pressure and all that. While they never are even
concerned with the quality of the vibration point. That is because they have no specific idea or understanding of how to practice to improve that
point. They will say things like "play long tones" or "play lip slurs", well it is obvious that you can do both of those thing very wrong only to
reinforce bad habits.
Here is the current state of affairs that players seem to be shooting for as I read their advice: Limited range and volume with large amounts
of air and air pressure.
However the ideal that players should be striving for is: Unlimited tonal range and Dynamic range with very little or zero effort.
That can be acheived with a highly or hyper resonating vibrational point. It can be developed but very few know how or are willing to do what it
takes.
Alexander can only be learned from a qualified Alexander teacher. Practically imposible to learn from a book. But there is some good insight to be
learned by understanding the principles.
Alexander, Yoga and all types of body work are all about eficiency of effort. These things take lots of practice and a correct mental state. They are
worth looking into and the efficiency can be translated over to brass. If you become a master of efficiency you can play a double C at fff while in a
state of total relaxation.
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Darrien
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| posted on 1/21/03 at 20:57 |
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kalijah
That is good advice. I did more research into the Open Troat business and decided i didn't quite make sense. Especilly when i found out that
Trumpet great Claude Gordon disapproves the entire idea
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timbo
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| posted on 1/22/03 at 08:37 |
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Hi Kalijah,
quote "the ideal that players should be striving for is: Unlimited tonal range and Dynamic range with very little or zero effort. That can be
acheived with a highly or hyper resonating vibrational point. It can be developed but very few know how or are willing to do what it takes."
So what is this "hyper resonating vibrational point" and how can we achieve it? Have you any good pointers?
There's a lot of interesting points in your post that seem to make sense, but you don't actually say how to play the trumpet better.
Cheers,
Timbo.
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dbacon
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| posted on 1/22/03 at 11:47 |
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Relaxed/Open Throat.
Relax the muscles at the base of the tongue. On the inhale, make it effortless. Let the air drop to the bottom of the lungs. A relaxed throat is an
open throat. An open relaxed throat allows the most resonance, gives you that sweet spot in the center of the sound. Freedom and motion with the air
flow gives you ease and confidence in your playing.
Dave Bacon
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kalijah
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| posted on 1/22/03 at 15:49 |
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You ask?
Timbo wrote:
"So what is this "hyper resonating vibrational point" and how can we achieve it? Have you any good pointers?
There's a lot of interesting points in your post that seem to make sense, but you don't actually say how to play the trumpet better."
Well Timbo, that is where your cash comes in.....
Just kidding of course, but I am available for lessons.
Let me say this about those things. I have been playing for many years, many times great and other times terrible, at least chop wise. I never had
real consistency until I learned what works for me. Now if I do the things I know to do I have great chops all the time and every time.
I have been adversely efected by bad advice early in my development that caused tremendous harm. But thru perseverance I have waded through the sea of
bad advice to come up with a method that works for me. Part of that was learning to apply pure science and logic to the factors of playing. This will
expose many myths. Unfortunately few people understand logic, science and reasonimg to the point to be able to dismiss or interpret advice from
others.
Good playing is a quest, life is a quest.
I hope to put together my thoughts in a book or course so that others may benefit.
Here is some things to think about.
Vibration point:
Basicallly the point at the mouth, lips, chops etc. where vibration occurs. This point should be able to vibrate at a wide range of frequencies and
dynamic levels with a smooth and even transition over those ranges. This is what determines range and tone quality more than anything else.
This point is completely passive, that is it can not create any sound on its own. It must have a power source. That power source is the air. More
specifically the (mathematical) product of the air flow velocity and the pressure of that air.
velocity X pressure = power
(It should also be noted that the reciprocal is also true, air alone as a power source can not produce sound)
Here is an analogy of a sound system.
Sound system is made up of 3 main components. They are:
amplifier (power source)
Voice coil (the electro acoustic transducer from electric power to sonic energy)
speaker cone and cabinet (focuses sound energy produced by voice coil).
The amplifier provides the power in the form of electric power which is the product of electric current and voltage:
voltage x current = power
or to compare:
voltage(pressure) x current(flow) = power
The sound system also has relative components to the trumpet.
Amplifier - Air Power source (your body)
Voice coil - Apeture (vibrational point at lips)
Speaker Cone-The trumpet itself
A difference here being that the Speaker cone and cabinet system is designed to transmit sound over a flat spectrum of frequencies while the trumpet
is designed to resonate at a spesific series of frequencies.
Stay with me now...
There is very little that a player can do to vastly improve his air power source, it can be done by increasing muscular strenght for more pressure and
faster flows, but practically nothing can be done to increase lung capacity. You have what God gave you.
As for the horn; you should play the best you can have available but even then any reasonable horn will not be vastly better than the other. But once
you have your chosen horn there is little you can do to improve it's function. in other words, it is a "given" (mouthpiece considered to be part of
the horn here)
The only place where a player can make large increases in performance of this system is at the apeture or "point of vibration". (But isn't it
interesting that all players talk about is air and horns, the two most unchangeable variables in the playing
system.)
It should be noted that this is sometimes refered to as the embouchure. The embouchure could be defined as the vibrational point and
its support system. The muscles in and surrounding the lips, the teeth the jaw etc.
You must develop a supple and responsive apeture that only requires minimal muscular action from the supporting embouchure. (almost completely relaxed
on low and/or soft tones)
Timbo,if you are still interested I will give you or anyone else a specific excercise if you will request it in a message. I would like for you to
give it a try so that you may let me know how it works for you.
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timbo
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| posted on 1/23/03 at 08:14 |
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Hi Kalijah,
Great analogy, I'm an electronics graduate so you're talking my language now. Unfortunately you are a litle far away for my cash to count - I'm in
England!
I'd be very interested in that exercise you mention, as I'm sure other readers would be too.
Cheers,
Timbo
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kalijah
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| posted on 1/23/03 at 10:05 |
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More
I can relate too, my formal education is in Electrical Engineering, a good knowlege of science really will help if you can apply it. Knowlege of
physics helps one to understand the mechanics of the "system". Anyone can learn these concepts, at least qualitatively, with some concentrated
effort.
But the knowlege alone will not guarantee success. The body must learn to perform through development and practice. But if the methods are not based
on fact then the practice could become counterproductive.
There is also value in the concepts of Zen when it comes to minimal effort and efficient use of the body.
But the time comes when you have to stop thinking about such things an just make music.
Going back to the speaker analogy. If the voice coil on a speaker system is unable to vibrate at or above a given frequency. There is nothing that the
power amplifier can do to cause this to happen. It could perhaps increase the power to the coil to force a vibration but this would only damage the
coil. Conversely, if the voice coil vibrates freely at a given frequency then the power amplifier has only to supply optimum power to yield
vibration.
Also if the voice coil vibrates freely at a frequency it will not absorb energy at that frequency but will transfer almost all of the electric power
applied to sound power. This is called efficiency.
I studied trumpet with a marvelous player who had studied from Carmine Caruso. The approach was to not worry about the sound quality at first while
doing the excercises. The key was to play in a relaxed and comfortable way and to let the sound develop in time.
There are many players, mostly young ones, who do so many things at once while playing. Here is what many a young player does when playing a note
(even a low or soft one) if he is doing what he is told by some of today's teachers:
Fill up...Open Throat...Drop Jaw...Point Corners...flatten chin....smile slightly...use lots of air....use dah (or tah)...two-thirds
top...support..use diaphragm..drop tongue...pivot horn
Well... by the time a player attempts do do all these things at once, he or she is most certainly a ball of tension. And when the sound is not good
they only intensify some or all of the actions to try to attempt to correct it.
The body "learns" to do all these things and the player believes he must do all of this to produce a good sound.
One must learn to play from a point of almost absolute zero effort and alow the sound to develop while appying only minimal effrots as the sound
ascends to higher pitches and louder dynamics.
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DrunkIQ
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| posted on 1/23/03 at 12:57 |
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kalijah,
I think your really driving theory vs. analogies. I think it is eaiser to make somone aware of how open and easy it is to move air and out when
teilling them to yawn in leiu of giving a large concept or hard to follow analogy to a younger person or just saying to releax and let it come out.
somtimes concepts are harder to follow than giving a base example to start out with. Maybe everyone is either gulity of not giving all the information
at once or maybe this old analogy that is commenly reffered to as yawning actually helps the person learn to relex the throat and let the air move
freely.
Heck I use to lose vision when trying to play high before I was taught how to open my throat. I still had it form time to time when I would tense up
(I could tell due to the lifting of my shoulders).
I am not saying that you are wrong in any way becaue you are correct on how it works, I just think your method is harder to conceive up front while
the old wives tell instantly shows the affect of a restricted tight passage comapre to a lose open one....
all the best,
Marc
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benge78
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| posted on 1/23/03 at 21:12 |
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Kalijah,
"However the ideal that players should be striving for is: Unlimited tonal range and Dynamic range with very little or zero effort.
That can be acheived with a highly or hyper resonating vibrational point. It can be developed but very few know how or are willing to do what it
takes."
Could you expound a bit on your statements regarding developing a highly or hyper resonating vibrational point? Sounds interesting, but I'm not sure
I follow you. Thanks
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kalijah
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| posted on 1/23/03 at 22:48 |
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I am practicing right now, I must be breif.
I wish I could show you my method but it would not be possible to do so in detail in such a forum.
I have come up with dozens of excercises to rid myself of tension and build efficiency.
Here is #12 out of over 100:
Relaxation exercise. Sit in a relaxed position whith horn in lap. Now move horn to playing position with as little bodily effort as
possible, BUT do not move a muscle other than your arms to bring the horn up and hold it in position, and slow relaxed breaths thru the nose. With the
horn in playing position put the mp on the chops, lips are touching together very slightly and mp is lightly resting on them. Now, holding this
position and while doing slow, relaxed, small breaths thru the nose; close eyes, now scan your body for tension, begin with top of head and move down
to the feet. If you locate any areas of the body that are not totally free of muscular action concentrate on relaxing them by just letting go.
Now concentrate on the muscles of the face. Should be totally void of anthing but total relaxation. Scan and relax for a minute or longer.
Now ope eys but continue to relax.
Now in your minds ear, imagine that you can play a soft low tone from this very point with only a small relaxed air stream with very liittle air
pressure. Expand the scene to believe that you can play beautifully from this state, expand further to imagine that you can play loud and even scream
from such a state, all requiring only modest increases in air and pressure. Picture it all in your mind but do not let the body react by tensing up,
remain relaxed. Now take a final breath in this state, as you exhale bring the horn back to your lap.
Now relax ALL muscles, sit quietly and observe silence in your mind, you are no longer playing.
Now take a minute to get up stretch, take some breaths, sip some water etc. Then repeat the excercise
Note: During the excercises your body will resist your mental picture and sonic images, either by tensing up or not allowing them at all. Your body
has always believed your teachers and fellow players when they said it was difficult, to use more air, to support... use diaphragm... point corners..
drop jaw... it may be dificult for you to picture the sonic images with you as the player while remaining totally relaxed, but in time you can, always
imagine the sound coming fom your bell and the horn vibrating in your hands, ALL WHILE BEING TOTALLY RELAXED.
This excercise will help you to un-learn all the tension causing, inefficient habits that you have, and we ALL have them. You can then begin with a
fresh start.
After the excercise begin your normal warm-up. And notice if there is any difference.
Let me know how it goes. Good Luck!
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jonbhorn
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| posted on 1/24/03 at 21:11 |
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I completely agree with this exercise you have so eloquently described. I have been practicing yoga for 6 months. So I know exactly where you're
coming from. You're on the right track for sure. I'm sure Kenny Werner would be interested to hear you claiming his method as your own.
"Effortless Mastery" was a good book wasn't it??
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kalijah
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| posted on 1/25/03 at 03:30 |
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Kenny who?..
I have never read him. Never even heard of him.
This excercise does involve visualization, but with the horn in playing position.
I have developed my own methods based on some writings and my own experience. I have read Dan Milman; "The Inner Athlete" and I recommend that. And
I have read many others, none specific to trumpet.
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kalijah
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| posted on 1/25/03 at 03:39 |
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Excuse me
I find your acusation that I copied this excercise from Kenny, and claimed it as my own, offensive.
Many people practice and teach excercises such as these, each with their own variations, and the method most certainly pre-dates Kenny "Whoever",
there are scores of books that teach excercises such as these.
And besides, these are the specific things I do, I do not claim ownership to the concept and neither should Kenny, or anyone.
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Tootsall
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| posted on 2/24/03 at 15:20 |
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I don't think I've seen this method of developing a "feel" for "open throat" mentioned in this thread yet, but here's what worked for me.
Take a 2" diameter plastic pipe that's about 3 to 6" long. (an empty toilet paper roll works but don't take too much time or you'll end up with
a mouth full of soggy cardboard! ) Put one end in your mouth like you were sucking on an oversize straw. Now, inhale and, when your lungs are full
DO NOT "STOP" the air flow but reverse it smoothly back OUT the tube. Notice how easily the air flows both in and out? (you might also think of
"singing" very low notes....with your "adam's apple" dropped right down).
Now, that's a bit extreme but essentially what you are doing is getting all the "internal bits" of your throat "out of the way" and opening up
the back of your mouth into the throat. That is the "open feeling" that you want to have when playing. You will eventually find that you don't
actually "force" your throat open quite that much but that it will "get used to" being more open than it was before the exercise.
I believe I've even seen somewhere folks mentioning a similar or even identical commercial product for helping learn "open throat" breathing.
The oral cavity is also a "resonant" component of the whole setup and getting used to having an "open throat" improves your tone (one of the
teachers herein might correct me if I'm wrong).
I know that once I "learned" the open throat concept my tendency to play (try to play, anyway) really "sharp" also disappeared and I was able to
get the tuning slide back where it was supposed to be.
I think Kalij nailed it when he said "relaxed".
Hope this helps someone.
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amos
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 posted on 2/26/03 at 04:04 |
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no point arguing authenticity here
Friends - it's not to claim ownership over ideas that we come here - but to LEARN to play. Hence we conceal our identities and forget our anxieties -
all to maximize the potential to give and receive.
i'm very grateful to kalijah for taking the trouble to post his tricks for all of us - for my part i can't wait to try it out tomorrow at
practice.
kudos to kalijah - please ignore this mindless quibbling and continue with your posts.
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amos
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| posted on 2/26/03 at 04:24 |
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what about TONGUE & gadgets
smbdy previously wrote that the root of the tongue must be relaxed - but I've heard that to assist the lips in blowing the higher notes it is helpful
to move the tongue body up to the roof of the mouth so as to constrict the opening in the mouth - is that true?
Incidentally - speaking of commercial gadgets - it'd be helpful, at least for beginners like myself, to have a tool to measure lip vibration -
something imitating the mouthpiece and recording lip placement, pressure and vibration in real and specific terms - that would really help you compare
your performance with your teacher's and see if you're improving or not over time - I can hear the difference but I can't register by ear any
improvement or worsening over several consecutive tries or over a longer period of time (days, weeks).
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highlandsong
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| posted on 2/26/03 at 10:51 |
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I think that the best 'gadget' available is your and your teachers' ears. Remember that it's the sound that matters, not vibrations, etc. If
your sound is good, then you're doing it right. As for not hearing the change, your tone, etc. will change very gradually, and sometimes you will
not perceive that change until it's pointed out to you. It's kind of like your physical growth. You and the people you are with every day won't
see a lot of changes. But Your Aunt Martha, who sees you only at Christmas, will see them and say, "My, How you've grown!". Record yourself
today, and again in six weeks. If you're doing the right things you will hear a difference.
dr
Whenever you play, someone learns something.
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